Michelle Moyal, DVM: Hello everyone.
Happy 2026 and welcome to the latest episode of the Cornell Veterinary Podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Michelle Moyle, visiting assisting clinical professor Purina veterinarian.
And might I add two additional things for this new year?
One.
New glasses wearer, which is very interesting, because I'm getting older.
Let's just put that out there.
And two big fan of unrivaled basketball, which is starting.
So everyone, if you haven't been watching, start watching now.
but I'm very excited.
You know how we do here.
We, Deep dive into the discovery And the learning that happens at Cornell
University's College of Veterinary Medicine, and today we are going to
jump right into a really fun topic.
I'm very excited about it.
With me is Dr.
Adam Boycott.
My hands are flying everyone.
If you're not watching this, you should be because that's how excited I am.
Dr.
Adam Boyko.
Associate professor in biomedical sciences and Chief Science officer
at the dog Genetic testing company, embark Veterinary, which, I hope
most dog owners, myself included.
I'm waiting for test results at like as we speak.
We'll talk about that in a little while.
may be familiar with.
So welcome to the show.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Thanks, Michelle.
It's great to be here.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: I'm gonna read your bio because I think it's, one really cool,
and I, want people to know a little bit of your background, but then I'll have
you kind of expand upon it for sure.
Right.
So as a researcher, you've studied the genomic evolution of dogs.
So, and I want us to elaborate on that.
You also investigate dogs as a model for genetic diseases.
And you teach a summer course, or you will be on these topics for our budding
canine, just geneticist out there.
Hello, everyone listening.
Just you wait, you're gonna be excited to become a geneticist in the future.
You're a graduate of the University of Illinois at Urbana and Pain.
You received your master's in computer.
Oh, cool.
I, like to hear about different journeys in, into our science spaces here and a
PhD in biology from Purdue University before you did your post-doctoral
work at Cornell and Stanford.
Wow.
You know, no big deal, just Cornell and Stanford, but welcome
to the show officially, Dr.
Boyko.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Great to be here.
Thanks.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: So I always like to ask people their origin story, right?
Because you have a degree in computer science and biology.
You could do a lot of things with that.
So was this your original final destination?
Like what were you thinking about?
How did you get here?
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: No, I mean, I always loved animals, although I'm like allergic
to cats and horses and things, so I didn't think I would ever be a veterinarian.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah, Purina has a diet for that.
By the way, if you're allergic to cats, Purina's got something for you.
I just wanted to share.
Okay.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: But I was really interested in science in high school.
I had a great physics teacher, so I decided to start majoring in physics.
And then I took some college biology classes where I got to go out in
the field and stuff, and I'm like, actually, This is way more interesting.
And so I did an undergrad in, Ecology, ethology and evolution.
But at the same time, I also got a degree in computer science.
'cause I really liked coding, I liked building stuff, software kind of stuff.
And so, I was a double major And then I decided, do I wanna be a
computer scientist that knows some biology or do I wanna be a biologist,
You know, some computer science.
So I decided to get my PhD in biology.
but while I was there.
Got a master's in computer science and at the time a lot of the biological
interest in computer programming was in like solving protein folding
problems and things like that.
That didn't really interest me that much, but by the time I was graduating
bioinformatics, the human genome, all of this genetic stuff was coming online.
I'm like, This is really, really interesting.
my PhD work was on helicon butterflies, so that got me out into the
tropics, exploring the rainforest.
You know, I'm
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Is that a certain species of butterfly for
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: It is a genus of butterflies.
It's the, the classic mimicry complex.
So you have all these different species with different color patterns
in different forests and they're trying to avoid predation by the
local birds and things like that.
And so it's kind of an
Michelle Moyal, DVM: to be eaten.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right, right.
And so there, so I had my own, I brought some of the butterflies back.
I had my own colony at Purdue.
I was doing spatially explicit simulation modeling for how different color patterns
could evolve and stuff like that.
And it's really neat 'cause I'm still paying attention
to the research in that area.
And they've, decoded the genomes and now they've figured out the
genes that are underlying all of these different color patterns.
And so it's really kind of
fascinating.
I got my PhD and I was fortunate enough to come to Cornell to
work on population genetics.
And so I was in a lab, it was mostly human genome data at the time,
so that's what I was working on.
building mathematical models, ways of analyzing it, bioinformatic
pipelines, things like that.
Um.
And then the lab happened to start collaborating on a dog project.
And I kind of got put on the dog project because we needed to fix
some of the bioinformatic pipeline And then do some of the analyses.
And I thought it was really cool.
I was like, wow, dogs are almost like butterflies And that they have
these really cool patterns that have evolved out of nowhere and what's
the evolutionary basis of that?
And um, it was a really, really fun collaboration.
And we found out genes for floppy EARS in dogs, the genes for body size in dogs, the
genes for different coat types in dogs.
we had, it was the biggest dog genetic data set at the time.
It was about 800 dogs we had from about 80 different breeds, including
wolves, So, It was really fun.
but people were really interested in the origin of dogs And for that.
Looking at pure bred dogs is not the best way to figure out the dog origins.
'cause we've really modified these, pure bred pret.
So it's really great for figuring out the genes that are different
between tall dogs and short dogs.
But it's not great for figuring out what were, what did the original dogs
Michelle Moyal, DVM: right.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: so Cornell gave me a seed grant to go traveling, um,
to find street dogs and village dogs.
Around the world.
so we started out in Puerto Rico, then we did some in Africa.
I worked with my brother on this 'cause he was a master's student, in public health.
And so he was going to all these places anyway.
we
Michelle Moyal, DVM: What an awesome
collaboration with
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: It was, really fun because he loves field work.
I love field work.
we just had a great time traveling.
I mean, we sometimes did solo, but we also, like, we were
in Peru together for a month.
We did various islands in the South Pacific.
We had National Geographic funding to do that.
We got NSF stimulus funding.
We were.
the project moved when the lab moved to Stanford.
we continued doing that.
got whole genome sequences from dozens of, dozens of these village dogs.
We got a whole bunch of new insights, including that.
The center of diversity for dogs is actually in Central Asia.
And so that's probably where dogs originated.
now even bigger data sets out there with ancient DNA that are sort of corroborating
where this center of diversity is and, and how many domestication events
happened And what that whole process was.
And it was So, It was really nice to be able to contribute to that and
have that project that I could bring to Cornell when I came back, when
there was a faculty position open specifically for canine genetics.
So Cornell's always been kind of a leader in dog genomics.
And So, It was really fun to come back working with the same colleagues
I was working with when we left, And then being able to build up a lab
expand out the different kinds of questions we could ask with dogs.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: So a few things, that I've heard that I really like,
and I find a lot of commonalities when people tell their stories here.
And even though I blacked out.
Everybody will know this.
When you said mathematical modeling, I did hear some other things and
those things are important to me.
So what's important to me is you found this interest in genetics and
you were studying butterflies, and while you didn't seek out this dog.
Project specifically, you were asked to help on it And then you found this passion
that you didn't even know existed and you even said, dare I say it listeners,
that you had so much fun doing it.
And then you get this amazing opportunity by receiving some funds to travel and
literally try to find the origin of where.
Dogs came from, and while I joke that the pug I see in practice
maybe doesn't resemble the village dogs that you were studying, right?
We have this, we have so many breeds now.
I'm still a pug lover, everyone, right?
We, we have all these breeds now, but they're still not right.
We've done so much selective breeding.
that wasn't the information you were seeking out.
So you had a question and you went to go find the answers
And that answer was in Asia.
Wow.
And then here you are, full circle moment back to where they made you ask, help them
ask those questions back doing this work.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right.
it was really a lot of fun and, and it was a big debate because,
some people thought that dogs had originated in the Middle East because
that's the cradle of agriculture, and there was genetic evidence that.
Dogs were closest to Middle Eastern wolves, but as we've studied more
on the genomes, including ancient genomes, that's because Middle
Eastern wolves have admixed with dogs.
That's why they're a little bit closer.
so they carry some dog, DNA, so that was that signal.
It wasn't that dogs came from the Middle East And then there was
some fossil evidence in Europe.
But of course, the fossil record in Europe is a lot more complete
than the fossil record elsewhere.
And So, it really was.
Needing to look at modern and ancient dogs and wolves to try to figure
out where these, where the diversity overlaps And we could find an origin.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah.
That's really neat.
So, was it a very specific place in Asia that you,
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: No, it's a pretty broad, a, we have a
pretty broad range right now.
Um, we're, certainly interested in trying to, Western China.
Is it Mongolia?
Is it closer to Nepal?
all these, places where we have some genomes that we really need
to dive down a bit deeper and see if we can find ancient samples that
might reveal, with more granularity, precisely where they came from.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah, That is.
Okay.
So that's very cool.
So That
is Your favorite discovery thus far?
Like favorite findings related to genetics?
Like why?
What did you find?
You were like, yes, This is it.
I love this.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: I think Probably the very first unexpected finding that I got.
So when we were working with 80 different breeds of dogs, we had, I don't know, like
50 different measurements on these dogs.
Fur measurements for the breed, skeletal measurements for the breed.
so we found genes associated with body size, associated with limb
length, jeans associated with.
Skull, snout length and things like that.
And we could take all of the genetic data we had and I could run through
this model and show regions of the genome that have been differentially
selected in different breeds.
And we could overlay those two And we could see, okay, well, so we had select,
This is associated with body size And we see a signature selection there.
This is associated with skull shape And we see a signature selection there.
And the biggest signature selection that we saw in the whole genome.
It didn't map to any trait that we measured.
So we had a group of dogs that looked like wolves in this part of
the genome and a group of dogs that looked very different and were clearly
selected for something different.
And finally, I like, it wasn't a region that had really
been associated with a pheno.
It was kind of close to a body size gene, but not right over it.
so I finally did like a Google search.
image for the different breeds in the different categories.
And after, after doing about a dozen of 'em, I was like, oh,
This is the gene for floppy EARS.
So the breeders have to fix the ear, type in each breed, and some breeds have prick
EARS and some breeds have folded or floppy
EARS.
And so that was the different between whether you have the wolf like prick
EARS or a dog-like folded or floppy.
Yeah, So, it was really, hadn't thought to measure that ahead
of time before doing the study.
And so it's just, the things you come up with if you're willing to look for
'em are, oftentimes not the things that you went into the, study to figure out.
So that was
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah, you're taking me back to when I was a kid
reading like a highlights magazine.
For those of you listening a long time ago, we used to have pictures
we looked at And we had to find.
The differences and kind of circle them.
I feel like that's what you were doing, just like trying
to figure out the differences.
that's so neat.
Okay, I'm gonna ask a question that's not in my list of questions.
Cornell loves when I go off script.
is there a breed of dog domesticated, breed of dog right now that most
closely resembles kind of our origin?
I'm just curious.
Do you happen to know?
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: no, don't think that there is, I think we've sort
of modified all of these breeds, and some of them maybe haven't gone
through as big of a bottleneck.
Some of them,
if you think of your typical street dog around the world, I mean,
there's a billion dogs in the world.
Most of them are not pure bred dogs.
Most of 'em are not mixed breed dogs.
Most of them are just dogs that are wandering around human developed areas
like they have been for millennia.
And they tend to be medium sized.
They tend to have short fur.
they tend to be brownish, but they can be black.
is like the default dog we just sort of call it a village
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Wow.
But There are defaults kind of, you see some default, like details in these dogs.
Like you were saying, medium size
and coat color.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yeah.
But of course it'll vary, so we, corded coats on the dogs up in the Andes, right?
And we see, we see extra digits on the toes of some of the dogs in
some islands and things like that.
And you do have islands that have dogs that have short legs, like cor keys.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah, I'm
intrigued.
I just need a list of all of these.
Okay.
I'm back on track.
I'm getting back on track because I really want to talk about Embark and.
My first question to you is you basically found this company
based on research you were doing.
So first of all, could you share with our listeners what Embark is
in case they don't know kind of how you decided to start it and like how
it has grown into what it is today?
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yeah, so Em, embark is a dog, DNA testing company.
it started 10 years ago out of Cornell, so we got, called a
Cornell Technology Grant to start kind of building out the platform.
it was an offshoot, a.
Of IP that was developed in my lab and elsewhere at the vet school
and,
Michelle Moyal, DVM: ip?
So
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Intellectual property.
So
we had, we had figured out genes that do different things, working out
algorithms for improving the way we build the genetic platforms that we
use And then interpret that to, to give results to potential customers.
Right.
And, by doing the dog research and, having the research covered in scientific
journals And the popular press, there was lots of inbound interest in, can my dog.
Contribute to your research and can you tell me more about my dog's genes?
Right.
And So, it was this idea that dog, DNA testing at the time was, for the
most part, just breeders sending out DNA to different labs to get different
co color results or different, like known eye disorders or things
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Sure.
Mainly
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: done.
But it was like a one and done.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: the line
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right, and there was one mixed breed dog, test
that was out there, but it only had, well, I guess there were, two,
but they only had dozens or at most like 300 markers across the genome.
And so.
In my lab, we could see, cause I had a mixed breed dog at home And so I,
inserted that dog into the test and I could, pick out which breeds were actually
in that dog when I looked across the 170,000 markers that we were analyzing
on the research grade array that we used in my lab and, other research
labs.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: I heard that correctly.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yes,
And so, so I was like, if we could actually get people to test
their dogs on this research grade platform, then we could give much
better results about their dog.
They could get all of the results for all the different coat colors
and known genetic defects, And also get really accurate results
for which breeds are in their dog.
And we will have the genetic data now that could potentially be
applied to future research studies.
And a lot of people were really interested in having their dog take part, in
research, and they, fill out surveys, they upload pictures of their dog.
And so when we, got into the incubator here at Cornell.
We had angel funding and seed funding.
and within the first year, it was about 11 months into the company, we actually
finally launched the test commercially.
And there was lots of
lots of interest.
yeah, it was, we had a really good bioinformatics programmer, that was
working full-time for the company.
my brother and I co-founded the company, so that was kind of fun.
I got to keep working with my brother.
He decided he didn't want to,
Michelle Moyal, DVM: that guy
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: after he graduated.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah.
Nice.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: So, so he went from being a, grad student.
So basically nobody listened to him to being CEO of a company.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Nice.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: was a
Michelle Moyal, DVM: It's a step up.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Big.
Yeah.
big change for him.
and, after a year of doing testing, we realized that, dog,
DNA tests were a seasonal business.
Most people bought a dog, DNA test for Christmas, either for
themselves or for someone else.
So we had a really, really big thing there.
And also lots of people like to tell us about their dogs.
so we started then taking the answers from the questionnaires
that the people had given us.
And run, mapping studies based on them.
So for dogs that the owner said, dogs did this versus
dogs that didn't.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: traits
kind
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: we tried it with personality traits.
we didn't see any strong signal at first with the personality traits, but
we did see a strong signal at first.
And again, this wasn't why we founded the company.
I had no idea that this was gonna be what we saw, for blue eyes.
So dogs that have blue eyes shared a region of chromosome 18, which hadn't
been associated with pigmentation before.
And, we found that there's a 99,000 base pair duplication in that region.
So the dogs have like two copies of, an extra copy of
that part of the genome there.
and if they have that, then they're highly likely to have blue eyes and it's
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Blue eyes.
Wow.
So two
Different
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Different colors.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: or E or sometimes different colors in N Eye.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yes.
different colors
in an eye or different colors between the eyes, but it's, And so This is the blue
eyes and Siberian Huskies in particular.
so a lot of, sled dog breeders had been using the test And so we had a lot of
sled dogs in the database And so that kind of drove this association signal.
And what was, what was great is, so initially we had about 2000 dogs with
different eye colors that we could use, And we, we found that, but then
we could reach out to owners who hadn't told us about their dog's eye color.
And be like, Hey, we think your dog would be interesting for this study.
Can you please tell us which one of these eye colors most closely match your dog?
And, and sure enough, we got a response from another, 3000 individuals.
We could confirm that the association was where it was.
We can confirm that the duplication is what's driving the association.
And we, published the research.
Like we didn't wanna like port it, and So, it was the first ever
genetic discovery made in direct to consumer testing in a non-human.
Species So, It was
Michelle Moyal, DVM: That is so cool.
So the research continued because you had this product and all these
people, I know I wanna talk about my pets, shared all this information.
You kind of pulled all this amazing data.
And through pooling that data, you discovered this duplication and it
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: right.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: discovery,
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: And there was no federal funding that went into it, right?
This is all people paying for their dog's, DNA tests and telling us about their dogs.
And that powered, that powered the research.
We didn't have to ask the
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: I do a study on eye coloring dogs?
And then
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah.
I love this story because I love that people also wanted to share
their data And then they really, really contribute to the science that
we will now share with the world.
I just, I love stories like that.
incidentally, I did, and I'm gonna ask you, I'm also going off script again.
Um, IDNA tested both of my dogs.
Both I'd like to refer to as shelter specials, and I got some very fun results.
One was very interesting.
I'm just, I'll probably share, I'll have to share them in our little
like after podcast info, but Okay.
Folks, I've been waiting.
Like weeks to ask him about this.
I went back to your site because I received the results on my latest
rescue, who I adopted just a couple of months ago, and found out
that you can do an age test now.
My age test is pending for this new dog.
Because I really, really want to know.
I'm like, I'm stalking the website, but can you tell me about this?
Because This is just, this blew my mind.
I didn't even know.
I've been a veterinarian for almost 19 years, And then went to your
site and looked at this and was in shock and ordered it immediately,
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yeah.
so it's a new test.
We only a couple years ago, um.
And the reason why we did it is, when you're offering a consumer product,
you really wanna listen to the customer and you wanna know, like, do you have
the right product for your customer?
And, we have 4.6
4.7
stars on Amazon.
People love the test, but we still wanted to reach out to customers
that had complaints and, and be like, what, what would you have
wanted more out of this test?
Why, why did
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: give it a five stars
in the
top?
Michelle Moyal, DVM: by the way, the test is very easy to do.
I actually really appreciate, just like swabbing your dog's cheek.
It was really
great.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: right.
Some, some dogs handle the swab easier than other's, but most
Michelle Moyal, DVM: I'm sure,
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: a treat in front of their mouth, they start
salivating and you can get the, you can get the, the, the sample from.
And of course, my dog at home was very well trained 'cause we,
every single time we upgraded the
system, we used her as a practice dog.
So like as soon as she saw the swab, she would sit up and, and she knew
she was getting a treat at the end.
So she was great.
with
it.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Pavlov moment.
Yeah.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right.
so the three main reasons why customers, had complaints about the test was
first of all, they would say, you got the breeds and my dog wrong.
And we would go back and look.
And 99% of the time that was not the case.
It was just there was a.
Bet in the family and they lost the bet.
If they win the bet, they are five stars, like over the moon.
I, everybody else was wrong.
I knew I was right.
but, so
anyway, so that,
Michelle Moyal, DVM: funny.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: first class.
weren't having a problem with the algorithm.
The algorithm was
working fine, which people just wouldn't believe it.
The second one was, I thought the test would tell me what my dog is allergic to.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Oh,
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: That's not really in written in the DNA.
That's a complex sort of situation with the immune system
And what it's been exposed
Michelle Moyal, DVM: agreed.
People everywhere talk to your veterinarian about this.
There's actually not a simple test you have.
There's different tests for different things, so yes.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right, Right, right, right, And I mean, there is,
some people are more predisposed to allergies than other's and some dogs are
gonna be more predisposed to allergies, but that's not gonna tell us exactly
which allergies are.
Problematic for that, for that dog.
And then the third one was, I thought you would tell me how old my dog was.
And that's a trickier one because the test we launched with looks
at the dog's, DNA sequence.
And your DNA sequence doesn't change over your life.
It doesn't matter if you're testing your dog at nine weeks
or nine months or nine years.
The result is gonna be the same.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: So when you say sequence, you mean
the, the order of the DNA.
It's all the
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right, just the letters A, C, T,
and G.
You've got dog dogs have two and a half billion base pairs of DNA per genome.
And so we're looking at the ones that are driving different traits
and ones that are informative for ancestry and all of that kind of stuff.
And tho those aren't gonna change.
However, DNA is not just those base pair letters.
There's modifications to DNA, which we call epigenetics, right?
So the DNA is the same in a blood cell, in the white blood cells in your saliva.
In a muscle cell.
In a skin cell.
This DNA sequence is the same.
That's why it
doesn't matter what kind of sample, we look at, the same dog is
gonna yield the same DNA profile.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Got
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: But of course those cells are all very different and they're
very different because some of the genes are turned on in some cells and some of
the genes are turned off in some cells.
And of course, in an infant, the genes that are turned on and off
are different than in a middle aged individual or in an older individual.
And so there are regions of the genome that are regularly.
Changed throughout the life of an individual either becoming more
methylated or less methylated.
And so This is a modification that doesn't change the DNA sequence, but it
changes the ability of the genes within that sequence to express themselves.
And so we could design a platform that looks for those types of modifications.
And then build a model to infer what the age of the dog is.
And so in this case, if you test a dog at nine weeks, nine months, or nine
years, it's gonna give a very different result because even though the DNA
sequence is the same, the amount of methylation in the different regions
is gonna be different over time.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Was that well-known?
Like did we all know about methylation or was that something
you discovered in this process?
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Well, we didn't, no, we didn't discover it.
we, fine tuned it for, for dogs, we look for dog specific regions
that would be informative.
We're really interested in knowing why some dogs age faster than other
dogs and whether there's environmental factors that accelerate this.
But what people are most interested in is, knowing approximately how old is my dog.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: And so what the test that they wanted.
We knew we had the science that we could build it.
we went out, we built a very large reference panel of dogs of different
ages and different sizes with known birth dates that we had samples from
because they had already sent us samples for doing the, em embark dog, DNA test.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: the information you had.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yep.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: That's very cool.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: So Cornell has a biobank of samples, so
we could look at that too.
We could make sure
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Awesome.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: worked regardless of whether we were doing it from
a saliva sample or a blood sample or some other kind of tissue.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: And I re, This is accurate.
up to what, a year or 18
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yeah, so, so most dogs are getting a result within a year of
their actual, of their actual birthdate.
And that's what, when we talked to veterinarians and they said, that
would be really useful because people are adopting adult dogs and they'd
have no idea how old that dog is.
And if I know, plus or minus a year how old that dog is, I, I can figure out how
to treat the dog And what to look for
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yep.
It really is so helpful.
As a practitioner, I have to tell you, and that's part of the reason
why I decided to seek out this test and order it for this new dog as well.
I found some, some things on his exam.
And was like, Hmm, maybe he's a little older than I thought.
maybe that means for me that we start, I recommend blood work
earlier to an owner, right?
Even though they might seem okay.
Right?
That way we get some baseline info as they age further.
So sometimes it's really deceiving.
So I'm, I'm very excited.
Two to four weeks.
I just got the email two, two to four weeks,
And then I find out how old Bill Hodges.
My Labradoodle, because you also told me he is 50% poodle and 50% lab.
and and he was no, he was found roaming the streets in another state and
someone found him and they tried to find an owner and No, I did not, no.
He kind of looked at, but I'm not a betting person.
Like
some of the people that, you know, you've heard some
comments from
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: on a dog's looks.
I
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Right.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: to tell you what breeds are in the dog.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yes, but I could, I'm also happy about this
test because as a practitioner you know, we often get the question
like, what do you think the dog is?
And we just kind of go by exactly what you were saying, like coat
color, maybe like kind of how curly the coat is or how tall they are.
If they're brindle, we might, so This is very, very helpful for us.
And so have you.
Discovered in all of this because I, do really think that all of This is amazing.
Have there been any findings that you really think have helped, like
canine health, just in general, like is there something you discovered that
you're like, This is great because people get answers, but look at what
we've discovered for dog health.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: So I think that the two ones, that come to mind first.
so the blood work for the dogs.
So clinicians order blood work frequently.
They try to use it to, to rule in and out different possible
diagnoses and figure out how to.
Whether the dog needs treatment or what to, what to treat the dog with.
in my lab, prior to starting the company, we used the Biobank dogs
to kind of see whether any of the blood values had, genetics underlying
'em that might be of interest.
and 'cause we know amylase, which is measured in these, blood chemistry
panels, was selected for as dogs adopted a modern human diet.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Oh.
Yeah,
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right.
And so humans and dogs both have increasing copies of the amylase
gene so that they can digest starch more readily, because now we're
having a much more starch heavy diet and a modern diet than we had when
we were hunter-gatherers, right?
And so we saw that effect, but we also saw a really strong effect with
alanine aminotransferase, which was not.
a LT.
So This is also a value that comes from the
blood chemistry panels
and
Michelle Moyal, DVM: In practice, we look at this a lot for liver
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: right?
Michelle Moyal, DVM: indications,
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: So if you have an elevated value, that's an indication that
there's possible liver damage or disease and treatment might be required for that.
but we saw that there's a subset of dogs that have a
mutation on chromosome 13 that.
Seems to give them baseline low a LT.
And so when these dogs have the liver problem, their a LT does
elevate, but it typically doesn't elevate outside the normal range.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Oh,
he just blew my mind
because low a LT has has no, like for us, low a LT has no
real clinical significance, but
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: significance.
If they have low And then they go up, but they're still in the normal range.
incredible.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: can tell owners when they take the embark
test, whether their dog is one of those dogs, And so they can flag
that with their veterinarian.
Maybe do baseline blood work initially to get what's normal for their dog.
Or at
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yep.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: no.
Well, let's look at other indications of liver damage because we don't
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yep.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: the A LT value
Michelle Moyal, DVM: That is, That is so for as a clinician that really, like,
again, he made my brain explode everyone, but This is, that's such valuable
information because if it's low normal, then at least we can even trend it.
And then if it's going up And then we keep an eye on the other, like
liver function tests and other values that represent the liver.
And I was just thinking about, if you discover, let's say
a breed has Doberman in it.
And we might consider testing 'cause there's a very well-known disease in
Doberman's with bleeding, something called Von Willebrand's that maybe you might have
people that say, Hey, let's maybe test for an issue with Von Willebrand's factor.
If we now know this dog has a lot of Doberman in it,
is that
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: right.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: also we might consider?
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: No, absolutely.
And we, we screened for the known genetic defects that
caused various Von Willow brands.
Um.
Disorders for the different breeds.
So you don't
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yep.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: which breeds are in your dog to begin with, for
us to do that genetic screening.
And of course
the clinician might wanna follow-up with a clotting test just to confirm,
that the blood seems to have that.
But, And that has saved countless embark owner's dog's lives.
I mean, we've gotten emails.
Oh my God, thank you for telling me.
My dog gets bleeding disorder.
We were just about to get it spayed.
Now we're gonna like hold back.
Or in another case, About six months later, the dog got hit by a car And
the owner knew not to go to the regular vet 'cause they didn't have transfusion
there, and went to the, went, went to the larger veterinary practice that
did have it to make sure that their dog was gonna be able to pull through.
So just knowing that you have
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Wow.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: this genetic tendency, can be,
can be extremely valuable.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: I wanna make sure everybody listening understands
this because I think is a huge impact on how we can treat animals.
So yes, we think it's adorable.
We wanna find out like the dog breeds.
I'm talking about age.
Yay.
It's cute.
You wanna see if you could win a bed or see like what, what
kind of treats your dog has.
I love hearing this, but we have these really important genetic factors.
That impact health, like bleeding, And we know we do surgery, we spay and neuter.
You were saying they could have trauma and.
This could mean life or death for an animal.
If they have a factor And we know that they're positive for this, that like
you said, that client can go to an emergency hospital and say, Hey, I'm
worried my dog will need a transfusion.
So they kind of don't take the time out.
Like we don't want time wasted when it comes to emergency medicine.
So I just, I love this on all levels from general practice
to our emergency situations.
That's really wonderful to hear.
Wow.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: And
then the other one I was gonna point out we, had a lot of
Rhodesian ridgeback owners that were
testing, so they have this inherited deafness.
early adult onset deafness,
that's recessive.
And, they were trying to get rid of it in their breed, but they didn't
know what the genetic defect was.
And so we could, we could look at our database and they contributed some.
Dogs that were deaf to help us identify it.
And we could identify a region of chromosome 18 that was associated with
deafness within the ridgebacks, And we could compare that to our much larger data
set of dogs from all different breeds.
And we could see that it was actually for some reason, that stretch of DNA And
the deaf, Rhodesian Ridgebacks was most closely related to a stretch of DNA that
some Shihtzu had, which was sort of odd.
But of course, the shihtzu
aren't deaf.
And so we could sequence across the Rhodesian Ridgeback sequence And the
Shihtzu sequence and identify the genetic difference between the two.
That is leading to the deafness.
So by having a really big database and by having samples that were
contributed from known deaf dogs, we could go through, we could identify
the defect that causes the deafness.
Now it's part of the test, so all the Rhodesian Ridgeback
owners can test for it.
And they know that if they have a dog that's a carrier, they
know not to breed it to another.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: And
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: now we don't have any deaf Rhodesian ridgebacks that are
being born anymore, which is great because a Rhodesian Ridgeback is a working dog
And so you train this dog And then it gets into adulthood and
it becomes deaf and it can't work.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Wow.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: just is really frustrating for the dog as well
as the, as well as the owner.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah.
And This is part of.
responsible breeding.
We hope that people are doing, like, they're not only looking for a lot of us,
as I grew up, as a veterinarian, we would test for some big things in breeding.
I'm gonna say big things, right?
This is a very big thing.
But let's say we looked at their hips.
We looked at their eyes, we had to check their hearts.
But some of these, I couldn't look at a change in a chromosome that
would lead to deafness later in life.
So breeding this out so that way people who have these dogs that they use
to work, are at an advantage, right?
Because we don't want that in the line.
So that's really cool.
And so now we've had all these impacts on canine health.
do we have any impacts?
Like, have you seen this kind of translate to the human side?
Like why are, because I know you talked to you, at least I mentioned
this in your bio, why are dogs such a good model for some diseases in
humans and like in human health?
Like what can we, what can we do with this information?
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yeah, so a lot of model organism studies for human health
are done using mice, which you can have.
Mouse colonies and you can do lots of experiments in mice and,
they're good for many things.
But mice are small.
Dogs are closer in size to us than mice are.
dogs have a more similar diet.
To us.
they live longer than mice.
They don't live as long as people.
but you get sort of the same aging sorts of effects that go on.
genetically dogs are more similar to humans than mice are.
so if you have a genetic defect in a dog, it's more likely it's gonna map
to a region of the human genome, and it's more likely the effect of that
genetic defect is gonna be similar.
To what that defect in humans would cause.
then in the rodent model, and of course the dogs are spontaneously
developing cancers and heart disease, whereas in the rodent models, you
usually have to, inject it, right?
And so you have this, spontaneous model species that's being diagnosed.
With the same disorders that humans are being di diagnosed with, in
veterinary clinics that are using many of the same diagnostics as human,
you know, medical facilities.
And so there's this real great opportunity, some of the diseases that
are rare in people are common in dogs.
And so it's a lot easier to study that in dogs And then we can apply it, to humans
in many cases because dogs, a dog breed doesn't have as much genetic diversity.
It is easier to find the defect that's in.
So this disease is
common in this breed.
And now we can find what the gene that's broken in in the dogs that
get the disease in this breed are.
And, oh, isn't that interesting?
We didn't realize this gene was involved in this disease process.
Now, when we look at the human data, we can see, oh yeah, 20% of the
time when we don't know what the genetic causes for this disease,
it's actually a defect in that gene.
And so we, this has happened time and again for, everything from
narcolepsy to skin disorders.
we found it first in dogs And then we knew to look, in people, which is kind of fun.
And then what nights is when you've got this really big dataset of
dogs that have been tested for all of the known inherited disorders.
So if you have a dog that's, Hey, genetically your dog is
going to get this disease.
If that dog goes on to not develop that disease, there might be something
in that dog's genome or in that dog's environment that we wanna learn about
for how do we protect from this.
And so that's another area of research where dogs can really help, crystallize,
hypotheses around therapeutic targets for different human diseases.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah.
Gotcha.
I want everybody listening to understand that it's not easy to study diseases.
we use mice and rodents because we have a fair amount of 'em.
They reproduce at a certain rate.
You can pass on these traits and study them fairly quickly.
but the dog being similar obviously is.
Really important for our learning, not only for the canines, but
for humans, but not as easy.
I'm not commenting on studying disease in dogs in a lab.
I am just commenting that what a neat way for you to take an
opportunity to study genetics and use it to help in human health.
That's my comment, everyone.
I think that sometimes, when people hear about studying animal diseases
to help human health, it has this really negative connotation, but it
doesn't, it's not always like that.
And This is a good example of that.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right.
All of this research is done with PEth dogs.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yep.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: getting diagnosed in clinics,
Michelle Moyal, DVM: You're not inducing anything.
You're not
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yep.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: them any disease.
They have them already.
When he said spontaneous, it means they got the disease on their own and
now we're using this to our advantage.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right.
Otherwise it's just wasted.
The, the scientists
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Wasted information.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: the information
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yes.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: then you're gonna Yeah.
So, it is just enabling research that wouldn't otherwise, be possible to get
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah.
And the other thing that I think is great that you mentioned is, yes, we're
studying the animals with disease, but with those that have markers
and, and he just said this, where we're like, uhoh, they're gonna get
this disease and they don't get it.
That's also incredibly valuable information.
Like why, science is always providing more questions and I'm not sure how
I feel about that, but here we are.
It's why we do what we do.
Um, so kind of changing topics, you have this course that I mentioned
that you teach and it's, it's called Genomic Data Science in Dogs.
So that long title, can you tell me like.
First of all, what is this course?
Because I think you, I believe you designed it.
Who is it for And what are you teaching?
Like what are we learning?
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: So there are lots of students, undergraduate
students, pre undergraduate students that are interested in data science.
Maybe they.
Took a statistics course,
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Oh, I blacked out again.
Sorry.
He
said statistics.
Okay, I'm back.
I'm back.
I.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: they wanna learn more about data science, but they
actually want to be able to do research.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: When you say data science for our young listeners, could
you briefly tell them what that means?
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: sure.
So somebody gives you a data set and
asks you to make sense of it,
right?
Michelle Moyal, DVM: and they're like here.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right, and it could be everything
that a very simple thing where it's like, what is the mean and standard
deviation of this distribution?
Is there a correlation between this variable And that variable to super
complex data science Questions like, If we have a trillion transactions that we've
recorded by our company and customers over the last 50 years, can you tell me
when I should put toilet paper on sale?
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Oh gosh.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right.
Like so,
so, so.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah, that sounds calm.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right, right.
But that's, what data science gets paid a lot of money to
do by some, by some companies.
And a lot of science is data science, right?
We're collecting data, we're cleaning data, we're analyzing data, and we're
addressing whether or not the data, reject the null hypothesis or not.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Sure.
So.
we ha again, we have this idea, we're trying to answer this question.
Does the data kind of answer that question or the answer we're proposing?
I
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yep.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: to make sure we're on the same page, or it doesn't Okay.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Right, and, I think in high school, at least in my high school
and even in my undergrad, the data science courses were very different from the.
Other's like biological science courses, right?
There wasn't, there wasn't a lot of overlap And so I could learn about
biological concepts and genetic concepts and I could learn about data concepts,
but I never got the opportunity to like take a genetic data set and from the
real-world, like a published data set that's available or the embark data
set or something like that, And then be able to ask questions about it.
Right.
And so we wanted to do this class where, okay, so you know
a little bit about data science.
Let's teach you a little bit more, and let's show you how to use a
program in this case, R which I think most high schoolers have access to.
It's free program.
People use it for data analysis.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: cool.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: let's also teach you about.
Genomics, specifically dog genomics so that you understand, what's a gene?
What's a chromosome, what's a genome?
What does it mean if something's recessive or dominant?
Where did dogs come from?
How are breeds of dogs related to each other?
And now let's show you, okay, here's a data set from Golden Retrievers.
And I want you to take this data set from Golden Retrievers and tell us,
where, where are the genes that control the color of the golden retriever?
Like is it a cream golden retriever or a red golden retriever,
or somewhere in the middle?
And so we call that a genome wide association study.
And so we go through the steps of how do you do a genome wide association study?
And now you get to do that on this real data set.
And by the way, we give you all sorts of other kinds of data
on these golden retrievers.
So you can go through and design your own project and make your
own discoveries with that.
And then the next week we'll look at a different.
Data set.
Maybe it's a, data set of canine cancer sequences or gene
expression or something like that.
And so what this does is obviously if you're really interested in
dog genetics, it gets, you really started in dog genetics, but it
gives you the skillset to be able to grab a data set from the internet.
load it up into a program, analyze it, make sense of it.
you have some tools now that you can use, And so if you wanted to do, join a lab
to do a research project on any species.
you now have some skills that you can do that, and you'll have to learn
the specifics of, that species maybe to do some of the, like how many
chromosomes does a parakeet have?
I don't know offhand, but dogs have 39 pairs of chromosomes.
that's something that we learn in the course.
And so that, that, helps you think about how we analyze all of the different,
chromosomes and, where's the X chromosome and where's the Y chromosome and how
do you think about a mitochondrial chromosome and all of that kind of stuff.
we go into the details with dogs, but you have the general background now
where, first of all is genomics something that's really interesting to me?
And then if it is, now can I find, a lab that's doing things in genomics
that are of interest to me and I can.
Already hit the ground running 'cause they know how to do some stuff and that's gonna
make it a lot easier to, contribute to the lab and grow my si scientific expertise.
So just going from, oh, I have interest and I can work in a classroom setting
to, oh, I can actually work with real data sets and make real insights.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: That's awesome.
I mean, I think about being in school.
And doing like little punt squares and being like, This is so much
fun, but This is well beyond it.
I like, I like that they get to basically really fuel their passion and see if they
want to go on and, and do other things.
I like that.
This is great.
People are using these programs and I, forgot to turn my microphone
on before this podcast started.
So really it's so similar.
It's
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: right.
right.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: their experience with these data
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yeah.
So we, we offered it last summer and, And the response was really, really positive.
And so we're, doing it again, this summer.
I, co-teach it with another couple professors here at the vet school.
So it's not just me talking to the students.
they get to interact with several, several different professors and
work on different, data sets.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: That is awesome.
Plus, that's networking.
They meet other people that are interested in genetics.
They meet you and other faculty members.
So I really like hearing that.
So for our.
Young scientists who think they're interested in genetics,
do you have any advice for them?
Maybe they're in junior high school, maybe they're in high school, maybe
they're in undergrad, and they didn't think they'd like genetics.
And then they were like, no, wait, I do.
I would like to do more.
What?
and it doesn't have to be advice about science.
Like what?
What do we tell these young, these young genetic lovers?
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: I mean, there's so many different areas of genetics.
Like if you come from my background where I like.
building computer programs and, solving math problems, or you come from the
background of, I like, being able to do reactions and, precipitate DNA and, do
complex, imaging and things like that.
so you have wet lab and, dry lab scientists.
They all, contribute to it, but the thing they have in common is they love
to solve puzzles and they love to think.
Analytically about what is the experiment I can do that's going to
tell me whether or not This is true?
Right?
How am I gonna test for this?
What do I need to control for?
cause we don't wanna do experiments just for the sake of doing experiments.
We wanna do the experiment that's gonna tell us is it a or is it B or is it
something we hadn't even thought of yet?
Like we need to be able to rule in and out different hypotheses
for science to advance.
We can't just go through the motions.
So it's this, this puzzle solving and thinking strategically and
analytically That is so crucial.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: you just said it, there are lots of aspects, like people
can be interested in genetics and they don't necessarily have to do what you do.
They could be doing other things and again.
It's another shout out to science.
'cause that's what I love about this, because you're, what you do in science
may not be, it's gonna be very unique to, you might not be like everybody else.
And so that's really neat.
Okay, well we're gonna, okay, we've soaked in the science and
now we're gonna, I'd love to just give like a little, have a little.
Little round of a couple of questions so people just get
to know you before we sign off.
So I would love to know is do you have a hobby that not many people know about?
Because scientists are people too.
I keep trying to convince other's about this.
We do have other interests.
You're not at dinner every day talking about genetics.
You do other things.
So is there a hobby that we, we would love to hear about?
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: So I got my pilot's license in 2019, so I
fly around a little bit, which is a lot of fun.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: That's
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: different way of thinking than genetics.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: I will say that's wild.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yeah.
thought that teaching genetics to vet students was difficult 'cause
a lot of vet students are, they don't like the data science part.
And there is a little bit of data science that goes on with genetics.
And I was a little frustrated And then I started learning how to fly and I
realized my instructor sitting next to me could die if I did something wrong.
And
that's actually a lot.
A lot harder teaching.
And so they, the way they think about teaching, in the FAA and
certified flight instructors it really adds to how you can think about
teaching in other contexts as well.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Absolutely.
As a person who taught live surgery, I feel like there were some components
there that are very similar because you're like, we have to, we have to
address any bleeding and things like that.
But actually a book I recommend to students.
is called the Checklist Manifesto.
And Atul Gawande actually studied like pilots and how they go through
these lists when they're flying.
And This is a read I recommend for anybody.
so I really like hearing that.
Oh, okay.
Wow.
Well, I can't top that as far as my hobbies, but in case anybody wants to
know, I am trying to learn how to crot.
Little safer.
so I asked this last episode and I'm just curious if I was forming
a zombie apocalypse team, what trait do you bring to the team?
Tell the listeners they need to know.
Well, flying is pretty good,
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yes, fly flying is nice.
I'm pretty good at so we
Michelle Moyal, DVM: growing your own food,
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: my garlic bed does well every single year.
So if the zombies don't like garlic, I don't know.
That's vampires, I guess.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Uh, it's, it's true.
Um, then, when you are in the lab, when you're doing your
work, no one else is around you.
Is there music on yes or no or anything on in the
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: It depends what I'm doing.
If I'm just coding, then
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Just coding
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: I'll have, it's generally classic rock, but my kids
are getting older now and I'm branching out a little bit more, so, you know.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Nice.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Yeah.
my middle son is in the top 0.05%
of bad Bunny listeners, so
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Hey.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: that going on.
I think I'm ready for the Super Bowl.
We'll see.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yes.
Love it.
That's amazing.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: a manuscript or something, no, I, I can't
really do that with the music.
It gets too distracting.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yeah, I totally agree with that.
I tend to have silence of, I'm really, really concentrating And then sometimes
other things in the background, but, okay.
And last thing, star Wars.
I'm back to this Dr.
Drew Miller, if you're listening to this podcast, star Wars or Star Trek,
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Definitely start wars.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: whoa.
That's the right
answer.
We started 2026 off.
Right?
That's all I needed.
Dr.
Boycott
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: I love all nine movies equally, but as, a
Michelle Moyal, DVM: valid.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Star, star Wars.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: That's a valid comment.
I hope you did like the And/or series.
'cause as a Star Wars nerd, I did really
enjoy that.
Just
out putting it out there.
Dr.
Boyko, thank you so much for joining us on the Cornell Vet Podcast today.
Thank you everyone listening.
I, hope you had a peaceful New Year's Eve to New Year's Day,
and I hope you set some, great intentions for the upcoming year.
And one of those intentions should be to listen to this podcast and learn about.
All the cool things we do at the Cornell College of Veterinary Medicine.
So like, and listen on your favorite platform, And we will talk to you soon.
Adam Boyko, MS, PhD: Happy 2026.
Michelle Moyal, DVM: Yay.