Hi, I'm Mara Antonoff, and I'm an associate professor of
Thoracic and Cardiovascular Surgery at MD Anderson Cancer
Center. I'm joined today by Leah Phillips, who is a stage
IV lung cancer survivor.
And we welcome you to the Cancerwise podcast.
I'm so happy to have you here today, Leah.
Well, thanks so much for having me.
I'm really excited about this discussion.
We're going to delve a little bit into your experience as a
cancer patient, a cancer survivor, and really your
experiences getting a cancer diagnosis at such a young
age. Could you start by just sharing a little bit with us
about how and when you were diagnosed?
Sure. So, I was diagnosed in December of 2019.
I started with a cough, which obviously
was lung cancer in September, but it took until December
for an actual diagnosis.
I was 43 at the time with kids
that were nine, just turned 13 and
14. So, it was a pretty big shock
because I had no known risk factors for lung cancer,
and so, I was kind of blindsided.
If somebody would have told me it was breast cancer or
ovarian cancer, I could've wrapped my head around that.
But lung cancer was a big one.
Yeah, certainly wasn't something that you were thinking
about. And so, at the time, you were experiencing a cough,
and you sought treatment from your primary doctor
at that time?
Yes. So, at the beginning of September, I went to the
doctor for this cough that just would not go away.
And she felt sure that it was just like a post-viral
cough gave me some steroids.
And amazingly, I felt so much better on those steroids.
But then it just kept coming back.
So, I think I made about eight trips to my primary care
physician. There was a little bit of lapse of care because
my original PCP went on FMLA, and
so then I saw a few different people in the practice before
I was admitted to the hospital in November for
antibiotic-resistant pneumonia and
clearly was not pneumonia.
And then back in the hospital on December 13th, I was
admitted with, where they drained a liter of fluid
off my right lung and that came back malignant.
And then it was a bone biopsy to tell us it was lung
cancer, and then biomarker testing from there
to figure out exactly what I was dealing with.
Yeah. You know, your story is not one that's so uncommon
for patients who have lung cancer at a younger age
of diagnosis, even though it's not the typical story of
what we might envision when we talk about lung cancer, your
experience is very similar to other individuals
who are diagnosed at a younger age.
And we can talk about that a little bit more.
But I do want to hear a little bit more from you about
after you got this diagnosis and began your treatment
journey, what led you to come to MD Anderson for your care
here?
So, when I was first diagnosed, I was told that
5% of people would be living five years later with lung
cancer, stage IV lung cancer.
And I remember looking into the eyes of my nine-year-old
and thinking, "I can't
do that. I have to be here for this." And
I looked at my husband one night after, like I went through
a few weeks of just depression, really, and just crying
and just terrible.
And then I finally was like, "You have to pull yourself up
from your bootstraps. Like you don't ever take things like
this. You've got to face it." So, I looked at my husband.
I said, "You know, they say 5%, so
somebody's got to make up the 5%.
So, it might as well be me." And he was like, "Do you
really feel that way?" I said, "Yeah, I'm going to be one
of the 5%." And from that day forward, it
was kind of like that was that was my motto.
That was my mission. And I just kept pushing the envelope
with care. I mean, we did biomarker testing.
I started doing my targeted therapy, which was I was having
great response to.
But then I felt like, okay, if statistically I'm only going
to live five years, now I'm a year into this.
What next? I can't just sit here and be a waiting
duck. And they had also said that targeted therapy I was
on would probably only work for two to three years.
So, the closer we got, I pushed and pushed and pushed to do
something aggressive. And so, I had radiation to my primary
tumor. And then I did
well with that. And then I kept thinking, now what?
Now I just sit and I'm a duck again.
So, I said, "I need to,
I need to find the right place." And I actually led that
webinar with you and Dr. Gay and heard about
surgically resecting late stage lung cancer, which I had
always been told, like, that's never going to happen.
And then I tracked you down and
the rest is history.
Yeah. Yeah, certainly.
We're, we're very glad that you knew in
your heart that you would be one of that 5%.
I think that's incredibly important that
that you did for yourself and for your family, really
turn over every stone, look for every opportunity to make
sure that you were able to get the best outcome for
yourself possible.
And I think the other pivotal piece that I see here
is that in getting to know you and knowing
everything about you, not only have you worked hard to
make yourself part of the group that is overcoming
the odds, you've worked hard to make sure that everyone out
there, everyone that connects with you, recognizes that
there may be other stones that they can turn over, or other
opportunities that they may have to be eligible for a
clinical trial to get care that may not be available in
their own local environment.
And I would argue to say that you have been a big part of
trying to push to ensure that that 5% becomes greater and
greater as you've encouraged other people who
are younger with lung cancer to find other opportunities
and other ways to do everything they can to get
the best possible outcome and to have access to the best
care available to them.
I just feel like all of us deserve the best
possible care, and MD Anderson has been
nothing short of that.
Every employee is happy and nice, and
you get the answers that you need.
And this is what I want for everybody.
I've talked to so many patients, and I remember sitting
in their shoes thinking, "This is it.
I've got two years." And that's not really the reality
anymore, and everyone deserves
to know that. And I advocate not only for myself, but for
all those other people out there.
Yeah, I absolutely agree.
And I'm so grateful that you do all the advocacy that you
do. And I know that you've certainly
been a warrior for all patients with lung cancer, but
you've been really impactful and powerful in the space
of patients who have lung cancer at an earlier
age and earlier stage of diagnosis.
Should we talk about that for a little bit?
Sure.
So, what are the questions you have about patients getting
lung cancer at a younger age?
I mean, I think the the biggest question is why is this
happening? Or how do we, you know, why is it trending
in this way? I know there may not be an answer as to why
it's happening, but it just seems like there's so many of
us being diagnosed young.
And have you seen any trends to that?
Certainly, we have seen patterns that more and more
individuals are being diagnosed at a younger age of their
life and also at a later stage when it's younger people,
and that combination comes from some things that we
are starting to understand, as well as some things that we
don't understand as well.
More of the younger people who are diagnosed with lung
cancers tend to have oncogene-driven
disease. So, there's a mutation that's causing their
cells to overturn more quickly and to form those, those
cancers. Now, the reasons why they're developing these
mutations are not entirely clear.
And there are a million different little factors that may
be contributing. It might be multifactorial, and
some of them may be genetic.
They may be exposures to various things in our environment.
And we certainly know it's happening at a greater
frequency and potentially being recognized at a greater
frequency. It may have been historically that people who
had stories or experiences like yours may have never
been correctly diagnosed as having lung cancer.
And so, certainly, we're getting better at identifying
this.
It's important that we are recognizing that lung cancer
in younger folks is, it's a different beast.
It does very much more frequently tend to be related
to a mutation that has taken place in these
cells that are in their lung, and this isn't typically what
we would consider a germline mutation.
It's not a mutation that's in every cell of their body.
It's not something that they would necessarily pass on to
their children, but there's something going on in their
lungs. And really, anybody with lungs can get lung cancer.
The other challenging piece that's really pushing us to
want to find as many ways that we can to help young people,
people like you who are diagnosed with young children and
a lifetime still ahead of you, is the acknowledgment that
folks with lung cancer at a younger age are
being diagnosed much later stages.
And there are a couple of reasons.
One of them is that, you know, people tend to have
perceptions that lung cancer is an old person's disease.
Young, lung cancer is a smoker's disease.
And when there's someone who's young and healthy and
active, it would be less likely that their care providers
are going to do more aggressive means to evaluate
their symptoms, to figure out what's going on.
And another piece of that is that we are more
able to diagnose older folks or smokers
with lung cancer at an early stage because of our
ability to engage in lung cancer screening.
And it's not that we don't want to screen younger people
who may be at risk for lung cancer, but rather we don't
yet have reliable predictors to determine whom we
should test. So, in general, we think of a screening
mechanism as a test to identify people that are
at increased risk of having that disease before they have
any symptoms at all. Not like once you already had a cough.
And so, we think of things like pap smears or
screening colonoscopy, mammography, a
PSA in the blood. Those are all determined for people who
are already at elevated risk of having that disease.
We can give reliably the predicted elevated
risk for someone who is a smoker, based on their age and
how many years they've been smoking.
But if you look at all comers, all young people,
even though it's more common than it used to be, most young
people will not get lung cancer at a young
age, and so, applying those types of screening tests to all
young individuals doesn't necessarily make sense when we
look at resources, as well as risks of the screening exams
that we have right now. Because right now, the best
screening test we have is a low-dose CT scan.
Perhaps someday there will be a blood biomarker we can
do for every person that will look at their risk for any
cancer. But that's just not where our science is right
this moment. And so, it really is a true
phenomenon of having more and more younger people being
diagnosed with lung cancer.
That's not only at a time in their life when they are
otherwise healthy and fit and strong and ready to begin
their careers, begin their family life.
It's often at a later stage where they're being given
information about traditional
prognostic, prognostic information and predictors of
their likelihood of survival based on what we used to see,
what we're accustomed to seeing in older people, in smokers
and people of other comorbid conditions, other health
problems in people who maybe aren't candidates to receive
great drugs like tyrosine kinase inhibitors
or other targeted therapy. So, I know it was a
straightforward question with a pretty complex answer, but
that's kind of where we're at and why all of the phenomenal
work that you're doing is so pivotal
and so incredible to making sure that we're looking out for
patients who are younger and are being diagnosed with lung
cancer and maybe aren't getting access to the resources
they need wherever they live.
Yeah, I think that's that's the truth.
And, you know, I think going hand in hand with that is also
people need just to be aware that you can get lung cancer
at a young age. That's always been something I've tried to
explain is that if you have lungs, you're at risk because
you we don't know what makes me more susceptible
versus you.
So, I do think just getting the word out there that this
is not just a cancer that people get who have a
smoking history or who are in their 70s or 80s
is huge.
Yeah, absolutely. Would you say from so many of the young
lung cancer patients with whom you've connected, most of
them were surprised at getting their diagnosis and maybe
had symptoms that were overlooked for some time?
Oh, absolutely. And it's interesting when I talk to these
patients, so many of us were diagnosed with the same things
leading up to our actual lung cancer diagnosis.
Anxiety is a big one, especially
for women being told, "Oh, you just have anxiety.
That's why you're having trouble breathing." Or pneumonia
is a common one I hear.
Asthma, exercise-induced asthma because, ironically enough,
a lot of these people I talked to were like me.
I mean, I ran the morning, I was admitted in the hospital
on December 13th, even though I couldn't breathe very well.
I was like, "Well, I'm going to get out there and do this
is. This is just a cough." You know, kind of a thing.
So, I definitely think that just
getting the word out there and, and letting people know
what symptoms are symptoms of lung
cancer. So, you can advocate for yourself.
So, I don't know if you have any, you know, I had a
shortness of breath, which I mean cough rather, that
eventually turned into shortness of breath and some pain on
my right side. But what are some other types of,
I guess, symptoms of lung cancer that we should be aware
of?
Sure. You know, the cough and shortness of breath are
really the most common, most frequent.
Some of the other symptoms that may indicate a lung cancer
may be coughing up blood.
It may be development of pain
or discomfort in the chest, chest,
wall, or even in the arm.
It can be associated with change
in voice or even developing hoarseness.
And if, unfortunately, if the cancer is spread
elsewhere, people may even have symptoms of where it has
spread. For example, if it has spread to the brain,
we have met younger lung cancer patients who may
have been diagnosed actually because they developed
weakness or a seizure or difficulty speaking or swallowing,
things like that. So, I would say the most common symptoms,
again, are a cough or a respiratory infection that doesn't
seem to go away despite appropriate treatment.
But again, some of those other things that may happen might
be hoarseness or other
symptoms of, of it maybe going elsewhere.
We've had patients who've been young and fit and runners
like yourself who've unexpectedly broken a bone, perhaps
because the cancer has spread to their bone.
And so, we don't want to make people in general become
fearful that everything, every symptom is cancer.
But it's really important for everyone to recognize that
all of these things are really in the list of possibilities
when you're having those symptoms. And, you know, a
brief cough is reasonable, a cough that doesn't seem to go
away definitely merits further exploration.
And sometimes health care providers can benefit from
a little bit of reeducation or some insight into
what the patients are worried about, because sometimes
patients have greater insight about what's going on in
their bodies than, than we do as health care providers.
So, I think all of the work you're doing to really educate
people about symptoms and when to advocate for themselves
is super important.
Well, thank you.
I'm interested to hear from you, really from your
perspective as a survivor. I've gotten to know you a lot
through your specific health care journey.
But I think understanding, you know, your perspective over
time and things that you've learned that you perhaps
wish you knew when you were first diagnosed.
I know so many people come to you for advice, and,
you know, you've been instrumental for helping
an inordinate number of people, but I'm sure that
you share with them some of the pearls, some of the
pitfalls, little elements of wisdom that maybe you wish
someone had told you back when you're first diagnosed.
Can you share some of those with our listeners today on the
Cancerwise podcast?
I feel like, you know, everybody asks me, "What should I be
doing? What's your best advice?" And, you know, my best
advice is to one: prioritize your health,
first and foremost. Make sure you're getting the care that
you deserve.
And don't be afraid to ask the questions.
Especially, I see this with women that I talk to.
They're like, "Well, he said," meeting the doctor, "he said
this. He said." But um, you know, you can speak up and ask
him the question, you know.
So, speak up.
Make sure you're getting reliable information.
Try not to go on Google. It's so hard not to.
But, you know, a lot of times that is incorrect
or it is outdated.
You know, I always say try not to pay attention to those
statistics because they're terrible and it's not going
to serve you well at all.
I think for a lot of people, being able to get a second
opinion is huge.
And that's something that not everybody can,
or knows how to navigate, right?
You know, like they don't want to hurt the doctor's
feelings or whatnot.
And then, you know, honestly, because of the ages that
we're being diagnosed, we have children that are still at
home with us. And that is probably the hardest part.
As you're navigating, you don't feel well and you're upset,
but you're trying to stay positive for your kids.
The kids get a vibe.
Kids pick up on things.
So, I may, I was a
teacher prior to staying with the kids.
So, I made a concerted effort
to make sure to get them kind of like the emotional and
mental support they needed through play therapy and art
therapy, whatever was age appropriate because it
is very heavy on their minds.
So, um.
I can only imagine. So, let me pose this question to you,
because I'm sure listeners who have young children may be
wondering the same thing.
I have talked to parents of children when
they're dealing with cancer diagnoses in their family.
And, you know, I can speculate as a mother, I have four
children, and we have not been through what you've been
through. But, you know, I've tried to pick up a little ways
to parent over the years.
And, you know, I've heard really two different
perspectives when it comes to sharing information with
children when there's a cancer diagnosis present.
Some people feel like it would be overwhelming or
exhausting or unfair to to put
that weight of that information on the children.
And I think the perspective that I tend to lean toward,
and what I've heard from a lot of the patients whom I've
treated, is that the kids are going to figure it out
anyway, and the option is that you give them as much
information as possible in the tools to kind of navigate
this journey and this process in a healthy,
more open, communicative way.
And also recognizing that, like you said, kids pick
up on that vibe. So, if you don't tell them what's actually
going on and they pick up on the vibe anyway, they may be
wondering, is she upset because I didn't get my homework on
time, or because I got a B-plus instead of an A?
Or did I, you know, not tie my shoes fast enough?
And there are a lot of ways that kids can project
what we are saying or doing on to their own experiences
and think that they're at fault, when in fact we are just
carrying the weight of something else that we think is too
heavy for them. But they're also carrying the weight as
well.
Right.
What are your views about that? And what would you advise
parents who are kind of on that, that, that
decision where they're trying to figure out what to share
with their children?
So, for us, we had kids at kind of different
ages. You know, we had a nine-year-old, we had a 13- and
14-year-old. What you can say to a nine-year-old is
different than what you can say to a 14-year-old.
We always feel like honesty is the best
policy.
No, I wasn't sharing the statistics I was given with them.
We weren't sitting down saying, "Well, they've told me."
You know? But we made sure to tell each of them
kind of individually what I was dealing with.
I was in the hospital for, for over a little over a week,
so they knew I wasn't well.
I'd lost quite a bit of weight.
You know, I was pretty miserable.
So, we were honest in the fact that, you know, mom has
lung cancer and that, you know,
we're going to do everything we can to get the best care
possible, but we're not going to keep it a secret from you.
And you know, my nine-year-old, as I started feeling
better physically was like, "Mom, I'm so proud of you.
You've beat cancer." And, you know, I didn't correct and be
like, "Oh no, no." You know, but on the other hand,
my 14-year-old, we found, we went through
a search history and he was looking on Google, and
the anxiety was overwhelming for him.
So, we quickly decided, "Okay, we're going to make
a deal with you. If you have questions, please ask
us."
Right.
"And if you don't think you could ask us which you think,
it's going to embarrass us.
You could text us.
You could little write a little note, but we'll get you the
right information so that you're not nervous."
Because every child is different.
That sounds like a great policy when you're talking about
cancer or talking about anything.
Anything really, right?
That's great.
So, you know, we kind of we, you know, my kids are
bigger now. In fact, I have a 20-year-old, an 18-year-old
and then a 15-year-old. And now they're like, when I have
scans, they're like, "Well, you're going to call us right
after, right?"
Yeah.
They're like, "We don't want surprises."
Yeah.
And that's like more of an adult mentality.
Right. Right.
So, you know, I always, I had in my back pocket
before we had the conversation with them, the mental health
people that I needed. I had already found a play therapist
and a music therapist.
So, I kind of was, you know, I contacted the teachers to
let them know it was going on. "Please don't talk to him
about this, but this is what we're dealing with at home."
Just to give them as much support as I could.
Sounds like you are very proactive in seeking what your
kids would need. And, you know, even for parents or
listeners who may not have those connections or those
resources, I think, you know,
working even with child life specialists in a health care
setting can be incredibly important.
That's certainly one of the things that we offer here for
our cancer patients.
Let me ask you, I, I know you already had
three children at the time that you were diagnosed, but
every family's pathway to to growth
is different. Did anyone approach you at all or discuss
with you oncofertility or options if you did want to have
more children? Was that ever discussed?
It was refreshing that Dr. Singhi did ask me
about oncofertility, but I said, at that point
I looked at my husband and I thought, "Our chapter is
closed here." So, we didn't really investigate
any further at that point. We knew we had the three kids
that we were meant to have, and we were, we were set.
Good. Well, I'm still glad that he did ask you, because
certainly there are patients at different stage of their
life who may be continuing to look at growing their family,
regardless of their exact age and how many kids they may
already have in their family.
It always really is hard for me to hear
when I talk to a 30-year-old or 28-year-old that
says, "Now they're telling me I'm not going to be able to
have kids," you know?
Or if I talk to them before we get there, I'm always like,
"Make sure you ask."
Right, right.
Ask. You you deserve to ask that question.
Absolutely. And it's something where, you know, health care
providers, more than anyone, should recognize.
There's limited windows, you know.
Right.
Of, of being reproductive.
Right.
And I think we're finally getting a little better at asking
women about it.
But I don't know that our line of questioning is always
appropriate. Sometimes you only ask when you see, oh, this
is a newlywed couple, and maybe they want to have children.
You know, we don't always think about it if someone already
has children. Or if they don't come with their
partner or their significant other.
And I think that's not always going to include
everyone who needs to be included.
And likewise, I would say this is one of the
limited situations or rare situations where we do a better
job of advocating for our women than we do for our men when
it comes to their reproductive needs.
And I think we, we don't often recognize
the fact that while men may not
carry the child or need to be pregnant, many of the drugs
that we have for young patients, particularly some of the
tyrosine kinase inhibitors, can dramatically impact sperm
count. But as I understand it, that's one of the situations
that can be preemptively dealt with.
Easily.
Quite easily.
Yes.
Before they start the drug and banked in a, in a way to
continue to grow their family in whatever way they would
like. But all it requires is that conversation and that
that brief discussion of what the options are.
And so, I think this is an area where, you know, I'm
definitely continuing to learn, and I hope that others
around me will continue to learn. I think there's so much
more that we can do. It may be that we are all
limited by this historic perspective that stage IV
lung cancer is, this is the end of the road and start
planning for the end.
When, in fact, there may be many opportunities
to build and grow a family and to watch that family thrive
and get through many more milestones, holidays,
graduations, all of the good times and
hard times and everything else. And I think, you know,
you've given a lot of hope to a lot of younger people.
Well, thank you.
With lung cancer because you have watched your kids, you
know, go through—
Yes. Yes.
So many wonderful events.
And I think that's really, really important as well.
So, recognizing that, it would be great for
the two of us to maybe think about how we could best advise
patients with young lung cancer to get information.
I certainly have my thoughts.
Can you share a little bit more about what you deem to be
the best ways? And I'm happy to share mine.
I think getting the, I think, you know, the first
appointment you go to you're too overwhelmed.
Now, some of those decisions have to be made quickly if
you're starting a treatment.
But, you know, if some of these things could be talked
about immediately, like do we want to preserve your
fertility, which needs to be addressed quickly?
Handle that, but then maybe a timeline of how we talk about
different things. Because at 43, when I was diagnosed,
yes, I could have continued having children.
But now at 49, I
look at it as what happens for menopause?
You know, because everybody says you'll never be able to
take a hormone you'll never be able to take, you know?
And so, there's this ever-changing, because luckily, we are
living longer than that two to five years.
It's an evolution of what life needs, what you
have. And, you know, I think about things like,
this is an expensive journey.
You know, the the travel, the medical bills, and
then you've got kids that you're wanting to send to
college. Like, are there resources available for
people who have survived cancer to help fund their
children? Are there scholarships?
You know, there's, it's a whole continuum because we are
not turning over in two years
and that's it. We had, because when I was first diagnosed,
I kept thinking, "Oh, well, just I have to get to, you
know, whatever." But, it, the sky's the limit now.
Yeah.
And there's so many things that I
could think of, you know, between having
that baby and getting that baby out the door,
really.
Right. So, your, your advice when it comes to seeking
information, it's not only making sure they're reliable
resources, but tailoring that acquisition of information
to where people are at in their journey.
Right.
Kind of figuring out what they need at different points in time.
Yes.
I think that's great.
I, I say I like I'd like to hear what do you think?
Yeah. So, certainly, I believe that, you know, I know
you've been very active in, in helping provide
information from patients to other patients.
I think that is one of the greatest gifts that some of our
online platforms have, have given us.
We used to be in an era where there was
very, very difficult
to understand medical information that that was
put out in journals or presented at conferences, that
may not help people understand what relates to their
day-to-day life. And there weren't a lot of conversations
in between about what to expect.
And then we kind of entered a place where people would put
random postings on on social
media platforms that may explain their
perceptions of their own disease as well as their
experiences. And while their experiences were valid and
their perceptions were how they felt
in the moment, you have to recognize that the people
who are motivated to share those experiences
may not represent the standard experience.
Right.
And like, what to be expected and what's typical.
So, I would certainly
be supportive of patients who want to familiarize
themselves with the latest publications, with the latest
research. I think it's valuable to discuss those
papers, those research articles with other patients,
but also with experts to communicate with your own doctors
and even potentially to the authors on the study if you
have specific questions. I know that you have been
really a phenomenal leader and have attended medical
conferences and been present and asked questions from the
patient perspective, which is helpful to
everyone. It helps patients learn, but it helps us learn.
And so, I think ultimately, we're both
saying the same thing, that there's a huge wealth of
information out there, but it has to be vetted and taken in
the right context. One patient's experience might not be
your own, and the experience on one clinical trial,
if it's different than you, it may not apply.
So, I think that's the important part.
Yeah, I always try to tell people, you know, a lot of this
has to do with how your genetics, your, your genetics are.
Everything is different for each set of genetics.
So, just because this has worked so well for me, it
may not be the same for you or because that worked for you,
it may not work for me. So, I said, I always say
it's lovely to have all this information out there, but now
you have to do the homework with trusted people
to figure out which pieces of information
will apply to you.
Yeah.
And I think I think you and Dr. Singhi have done a great
job with that because we're finally getting
like, medical data in a way that we could, that
the majority of people can digest it and understand it,
which is huge.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Well, this has been a phenomenal discussion.
I know that the two of us could just go on for hours, but
as we're getting ready to wrap up, I just wanted to ask
you, do you have any closing words of advice, anything else
that you would like to offer our listeners?
I just think it's one day at a time.
It's one day at a time. Because
my hope, and I think it's probably your hope too, is that
one day this will be a chronic illness, not a terminal
illness. And we only have to get
to the next best treatment.
Like, I don't have to set my sights on a cure
in 30 years from now. I just need to set my sights on maybe
six weeks from now, or six months from now, or a year from
now, when someone comes up with the next best treatment.
Just like surgery wasn't an option five years ago,
and then it was.
Yeah.
So, you never know what can happen.
Yeah.
In that amount of time, just what I've seen in five years,
the change has been huge.
So, I think there's still so much that
you guys have to learn and figure out and
then we'll benefit from.
Absolutely. And those are great parting words
of advice. Always, always a pleasure to chat with you and
to hear from you.
I'm really grateful to you for joining me today.
This was a great discussion, and I want to thank our
listeners for listening to the Cancerwise Podcast from MD
Anderson Cancer Center.
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