Dr Pamela Soliman (Host): Hi.
I am Dr.
Pamela Solomon, a professor in the Department of Gynecologic Oncology
here at MD Anderson Cancer Center.
I'm joined today with one of my esteemed colleagues, Dr.
Shannon Weston, who's also a professor in the Department of Gynecologic Oncology.
Thank you so much for joining us for this Cancer Wise podcast today.
I'm so excited to be here.
Thanks for having me.
We're here to talk about what women should know about gynecologic cancers.
Shannon, maybe tell us a little bit about what you do as a GN oncologist.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's
Dr Shannon Westin: really important to understand because it can be really
confusing about what exactly we do.
So gynecologic oncologists are the ultimate doctor, right?
So we do surgery And we give treatment for gynecologic cancers.
But it's important to know that we don't treat all women's cancers.
We typically will treat below the belt women's cancers, so uterine cancer,
ovarian cancer, cervical vaginal, vulvar.
We do not treat breast cancer.
Um, but I think that we would all agree that as gynecologic
oncologists, we have the opportunity to provide the most comprehensive
care because of the way that we touch all pieces of the woman's journey.
Dr Pamela Soliman (Host): And then maybe talk a little bit about, uh,
which cancers you treat And we can.
Talk about how to screen for them or what people should know in general?
Dr Shannon Westin: Sure.
I mean, I can start with just our, our cancers in general.
So the, let's start with the reproductive organs, right?
So we have the uterus and That is where a baby will grow
when we have, uh, pregnancy.
Um, but the cancer can start either inside the uterine lining, which is
called the endometrium, or in the muscle wall, which can be called a sarcoma.
Um, we also can see cancers that start just in the cervix, so, And
the outside of the womb, And then even going out to the external female
genitalia like the vulva And the vagina.
And then finally we can see cancers in the ovary or along the fallopian
tube or in the inside lining of the abdomen, which is called the peritoneum.
And Those are all kind of loosely grouped as something called ovarian
cancer and treated the same.
So let me ask you this.
Um, I think there's a lot of confusion out in the community around the PAP
test And what it actually can show.
Dr Pamela Soliman (Host): So that's a great question and something that we're
often asked like, oh, I had a pap smear.
Doesn't that screen for ovarian cancer?
Um, And the reality is no, it doesn't.
Okay.
So the main reason you have a pap smear is for early detection
of a pre-cancer or dysplasia.
That we can prevent cervix cancer.
I think going to the doctor also enables you to have a pelvic exam and have
a discussion about any symptoms that you're looking at or anything different.
And those can be, um, helpful to find some of the other gynecologic cancers.
Dr Shannon Westin: And that makes sense.
And I guess the other, the question that comes up then is how does
somebody out in the community get screened for, say, ovarian or
peritoneal or fallopian tube cancer?
Are there any mechanisms that work well for that?
Dr Pamela Soliman (Host): Yeah, no, that's again, something
that we're asked commonly.
Um, so endometrial cancer is the most common gynecologic cancer that we see.
Um, risk factors include being overweight or obese, things like diabetes,
hypertension, um, something called PCOS or polycystic ovarian syndrome.
Um, so there isn't a screening test for endometrial cancer, but.
Endometrial cancer often presents with a symptom that women recognize
as abnormal, And so we tell women if you're having irregular periods,
so you're bleeding in between your periods, they're very unpredictable.
All of a sudden change.
They change and they're very heavy.
That's something you should let your doctor know about in women who've
already gone through menopause.
Any bleeding at all.
So even a drop of blood, that's like a red flag that something may be going on.
So even though there isn't a screening test, these like physical signs that
most women recognize as abnormal will lead them to go to their doctor.
And if they go to their doctor and they report these things, then they'll have
an evaluation, either a pelvic ultrasound to look at the lining of the uterus, or
sometimes an office endometrial biopsy where we take a small straw, put it
inside the uterus, And then take out.
Some cells, and that's a way that we can find endometrial cancer.
And fortunately because people recognize these are abnormal
symptoms, um, most women are diagnosed with early stage disease.
Um, maybe switch gears and talk a little bit about ovarian cancer
screening and kind of what's.
Going on with that?
Dr Shannon Westin: Yeah, I mean, I think ovary cancer has been tough because there
are some ways that we can screen for it.
You already mentioned some of them.
Right.
So an ultrasound is a way we can use a blood test, something called a CA 1
25, which may or may not be elevated in the setting of ovarian cancer.
But I think the issue is we've not been able to find a universal screening.
So there's no recommendation at this point if you go to your regular gynecologist or
your regular internal medicine physician, that there's anything that should be
done to look for ovarian cancer if you're without symptoms or any other history.
So the symptoms that would raise our eyebrows or make us concerned
that there could be, um, the presence of ovarian cancer is.
Kind of subtle.
There's symptoms that are often really easy to blow off, right?
So abdominal pain, nausea, bloating, kind of not fitting quite well in our clothes.
Weight gain, weight loss, and it's easy to blow it off and be like,
oh, maybe I'm lactose intolerant, or I need more fiber in my diet.
Or I'm, I'm allergic to gluten, You know?
So.
I think it's very easy to put those symptoms off on something else, but if
we're seeing those types of persistent symptoms, then we would want to
move forward to do some screening.
And that's the same things that you just talked about.
So ultrasound lab and really more, um, advanced imaging.
So, you know, we personally love as gynecologic oncologists when
someone has gotten a ct, a CAT scan of the abdomen and pelvis.
'cause we get a really good look and can understand what's going on.
I think, you know, in a.
Person that has.
Increased risk, And this would be people that, um, have a, either
a genetic predisposition to the development of ovarian cancer or
other extensive exposure to estrogen.
So early menarchy, early start of menses or late menopause.
So.
When everything stomps.
Um, if they haven't had a lot of kids, so they've been exposed to
estrogen for longer times, you know, or if they're taking estrogen, you
know, those types of things could put us at higher risk and may warrant a
little bit more careful screening.
Um, I would love to, to kind of to switch gears a little bit and
talk about the, the genetics.
Um, do you wanna tackle the genetics of endometrial cancer?
Sure.
'cause that's something you've done a lot of work in.
Dr Pamela Soliman (Host): Yeah, so I think.
You know, when many patient's are diagnosed with cancer in general,
the first thing they wanna know is, oh, why did I get this?
Um, are my kids at-risk for getting this?
You know, is this genetic?
And for most women with endometrial cancer, fortunately it's not genetic.
Um, and there are other risk factors like we talked about, overweight,
obesity, and things like that.
So if you take all women that have endometrial cancer, only about two to
3% are caused by a genetic syndrome.
Um, something called Lynch syndrome.
Um, it's a gene that we carry And we can pass on to our children.
About 50% chance of passing it on to your children.
That increases your risk for several cancers, including endometrial cancer.
So if a person has Lynch syndrome, then their lifetime risk of developing
uterine cancer is about 60%.
So many women will get uterine cancer.
Then it also increases your risk for other cancers.
So among the gynecologic cancers, there's a slight increase in ovarian cancer.
So we didn't really talk about it, but the general population risk of ovarian
cancer is a little bit less than 2%.
So if you're not in the high-risk category, the risk you're gonna get it
is relatively low to other cancer types.
But if you have Lynch syndrome, it can be up to 10% lifetime risk.
So, it does increase for that in women that have a genetic mutation.
Then we can also test their children.
So that gives us an opportunity to understand whether their siblings
or their children are also affected.
And if they are, then it allows us to implement a different screening and
a more proactive management style.
So for example, if my mom had uterine cancer years ago and she was tested and
found to have Lynch syndrome And then I got tested, and I know I have it, but I
don't have cancer, what we generally do is recommend an endometrial biopsy annually.
Um, it also increases your risk for colon cancer.
So we do colon cancer screening earlier and more frequently
than the general population.
And then once patient's are finished with childbearing, we actually
offer them preventative surgery.
So you can say, okay, I'm 40 years old, I've had my kids, I wanna go
ahead and have a hysterectomy to prevent a future uterine cancer.
Dr Shannon Westin: And we see something similar with ovarian, peritoneal and
fallopian tube cancer, where I think many of our, our listeners will be
familiar with something called BRCA.
And there's two pieces of BRCA.
We have BRCA one and BRCA two, as well as some more, uh, rare genetic syndromes
that we can see or abnormalities.
And then genes like RAD 51 C, RAD 50 1D.
But the bottom line is when you have this abnormality in the gene, it puts
you at a higher risk of the development of cancer, specifically breast cancer.
As well as ovary, peritoneal, and fallopian tube cancers.
And, and just like you said, you know, if you have a family history of any
of the cancers associated with BRCA, you may be at an increased risk.
And specifically when we talk about family history, we're
looking at some specific features.
We look for, um, first-degree relatives, so like your parent or your sibling.
Um, we look at the age at which that cancer developed.
So younger age at the development of cancer is concerning for a potential
hereditary, uh, uh, syndrome.
And then we look to see the pattern within the family.
Are there multiple of these types of cancers or even.
Have you already had breast cancer?
Well, you might be at an increased risk of developing ovarian cancer.
And so when we know that we have these abnormalities, it's a simple test, right?
We can test your blood or, or test, uh, your saliva and look for the kind of
most common genes that are abnormal.
And if we identify that and you do not have cancer, just like what was what
you just said about Lynch syndrome?
There are opportunities for screening.
We use ultrasound, we use blood tests.
We watch very closely.
But then just like with Lynch syndrome, when you hit a certain age, if you're
completed with childbearing, there are opportunities for risk reducing surgeries.
And the standard risk reducing surgery for ovarian and peritoneal and fallopian
tube cancer is actually removal of the ovaries and fallopian tubes.
Although there's some really exciting research going on, looking at,
maybe if we could just take out the fallopian tube, which may be kind of
the worst actor of the, of the three.
Um, And so I think.
Understanding your family history, that your symptoms and, And what you're at-risk
for is really important because, you know, here at MD Anderson, we have some
really awesome high-risk screening clinics where you can, don't have to worry.
You're plugged into the clinic and they will walk you through the process of
the types of testing that you need.
And also.
You know, the, the types of interventions that might be appropriate for you
to, uh, reduce your cancer risk.
So I, I think it's really important to, to know all these things that we just talked
about so that you can identify your own risk and, uh, potentially get involved.
Dr Pamela Soliman (Host): Yeah, I think the only thing I would add to
that, um, is for people listening and they're thinking, oh, what, my
mom had this and my dad had that.
And You know, I think that's our responsibility or as physicians to help
you understand your family history.
So I think the most important thing is that you reach out and you talk
to your doctor, whether it's your, You know, primary care doctor for
your annual visit, your gynecologist to sort of advocate for yourself.
Um, I think you mentioned kind of ovarian cancer, having subtle symptoms.
And I think it's kind of the same thing, like you have a responsibility to tell
your doctor I'm having a, B and C.
Because the symptoms are so common, they'll be like, oh, it's probably gi.
We might send you for a colonoscopy.
We see this all the time.
And then people are like, okay, but they continue to have
symptoms, but they don't go back.
And so I always tell people, you are your biggest advocate.
So if something isn't right and something's changed, go to your doctor.
If they say everything's okay and it's persistent, go to your doctor and keep
going until they do something about it.
And I think talking to them about your family history and asking questions is
also part of advocating for yourself.
Dr Shannon Westin: Yeah.
And then I think if you are identified to have either to be at-risk.
For a gynecologic malignancy, or even if you have a gynecologic malignancy, I think
the next step is going to a specialist.
Right?
And I think that we can't say this enough.
There's been data across all of the different gynecologic cancers,
cervical cancer, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, that the best outcomes
come when you see somebody in a high.
Uh, number setting.
People, they, they see a lot of this.
They know what to do.
They're going to use guideline concordant care.
It is essential to see a gynecologic oncologist, and it's essential to
make sure that the person you're seeing sees more than one of you.
Right?
So they're experienced.
You're not the first person they've ever seen with this, that, or the other.
So I really do think that advocacy goes beyond even once we get the diagnosis
and making sure you're in the right place, getting the right treatment.
Dr Pamela Soliman (Host): Yeah, and I think.
Sometimes we'll hear patient's say, oh, I went to my doctor and they said, oh,
well, we'll just take it out and see what it is, And then we'll send you, I think
particularly if you're postmenopausal.
Um, if you have ovarian masses, there's an opportunity for us as oncologists
to do everything at the same surgery.
So for example, if you go and you have just your ovaries taken out, oh, And
then it's cancer, then you may have to go back to surgery for the staging
procedure or additional information.
One of the benefits of coming somewhere like here or seeing a g oncologist
is we can do that evaluation while you're under anesthesia and asleep.
Get that information And then action on it at the same time.
Um, So, it often helps expedite care, and I think that's why studies have shown
that patient's have better outcomes.
Dr Shannon Westin: Yeah, and I think even if you, you're getting a risk
reducing surgery, it can be really important where you get that done right?
Because you and I both know that when we take out ovaries or
fallopian tubes or a uterus in patient's that are at a hereditary
risk for cancer, they need to be.
Processed in a very specific way and assessed in a very specific way so
that we don't miss any early evidence of pre-cancer, um, or microinvasive,
tiny, tiny bits of cancer that would need to be treated and if missed, could
lead to a subsequent recurrence of disease or, you know, inadequate care.
And so I think where you go first really matters and making sure that you're
getting that appropriate guideline.
Concordant care in the hands of an expert is really gonna be important.
Dr Pamela Soliman (Host): Wow, we covered a lot of ground today.
So one more thing I thought of that often comes up when we kind of talk
about screening and things like That is patient's say, well, isn't CA 1 25?
A marker for ovarian cancer.
Can't I just get that?
And isn't that gonna help me screen for ovarian cancer?
So what do you say when people ask you that?
Yeah, I mean, it's, I wish it
Dr Shannon Westin: was right.
So I think the issue has been when we've looked at studies where
we just get CO one 20 fives and everybody, we end up doing too much.
We end up taking people to surgery, having worse outcomes, having issues
happen, And we don't actually find.
A higher number of cancers So, It doesn't work the way we would like.
And I, I would say there's a lot of really smart people doing really great
work trying to find other markers or, or algorithms that will help us
identify people that, um, that have early ovarian cancer or at-risk.
But at this point, we do not recommend doing CA 1 25 and everybody.
Dr Pamela Soliman (Host): Awesome.
Well, it's been so great sitting down with you.
We work together, but we never sit down to chat down together and talk.
So thank you so much for joining us today for this enlightening conversation,
and thank you for tuning in today.
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