Daniel I. Simon, MD:
Thank you for listening to another episode today.
I am happy to be joined by our guest, Dr.
Jennifer.
V Vice Chair of research in the Department of Otolaryngology and head
and neck surgery at University Hospitals.
She's a professor of otolaryngology and a fellowship-trained rhinologist and
anterior skull base Surgeon welcome.
Jennifer Villwock, MD: Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
Daniel I. Simon, MD:
We're in for a real treat today, because, Dr.
Vock is a smell doctor and, old faction is, You know, one of those senses that we
kind of learn in medical school And then we don't really think much more about it.
But you're very, very famous, for a special test and smell called aroma.
And we're gonna get to that in a moment.
But before we get started, Jennifer, maybe you could just tell us how you got
into medicine, where did the interest come from, and a little bit about
your journey, to university hospitals.
Jennifer Villwock, MD: Yeah, absolutely.
So medicine for me, I think was a way to have an impact, and my brain
is very scientifically oriented and.
Most of my research endeavors, they come from, I see things that don't make sense
or that we don't have a better explanation for, and like I just cannot handle that.
And so it's like, all right, well we need to investigate more and
find better ways to do things.
And so medicine was an ideal fit for that.
I went to medical school at Michigan State and I actually did my.
Two clinical years in Flint, Michigan, which is now famous
for the Flint water crisis.
And so that really instilled in me not just a need for accessible medicine,
but really to be engaged with the communities that we care for as well
to get the outcomes that we want.
I subsequently did my residency training at SUNY Upstate in Syracuse, New
York, And then decided that I really.
Loved Rhinology.
And so for those who are not familiar with the field, the way that I think
about Rhinology is that I'm a tiny carpenter inside the nose, so most
of the procedures that I do are with cameras through the nose, really
optimizing the architecture or sometimes.
Fixing, you know, if there's leaks in the ceiling And we have cerebral spinal fluid
coming down, I, I'm just doing some HGTV style renovations, but inside the nose,
to improve the health of my patient's.
And that's what led me, to stay on as faculty at my prior institution.
And that's where all of my work in olfaction really.
Daniel I. Simon, MD:
That's really great.
So, you know, let's start really basic here for our listeners,
because even the doctors in the audience, this goes back to cran.
Nerves, olfaction smell receptors going to what part of the brain?
Tell us just a little bit about the basic neurocircuitry of smell,
because that really factors into diseases that we're gonna talk about.
Jennifer Villwock, MD: Absolutely.
For folks that, you know, you hear cranial nerves and your brain turns off.
always tell folks, I'm like, well, then I think.
Olfaction might be your jam because you have the olfactory receptor neurons And
then they're hanging out on the nose side of things in the cy nasal cavity.
in the olfactory cleft.
They go through the cribriform plate And then they synapse in the olfactory bulb.
Boom, you're done.
That's your pathway.
So, for those of us that like, the elegance of simplicity,
olfaction is a great.
cranial nerve to study.
And then of course from there the neuroanatomy gets much more
complicated in terms of where all those signals are routed centrally.
and that's where we start talking about the impact of different
disease states on olfaction.
Daniel I. Simon, MD:
It's interesting.
As a cardiologist, we think of the eye as a window on the brain.
So, we can see changes in vessels that give us hints into atherosclerosis.
Diabetes, we have changes in the eye, and now you hear about people who
studied dementia looking in the eye, but.
I hate to say it, but, smell seems to be the forgotten one
that's also very accessible.
So maybe that'll lead us in to our first real question about what your real
passion, which is your test called Aroma.
You developed this, it's affordable, rapid you can embed it
in real-world clinical workflow.
So tell me a little bit about it.
What is it and how does it work?
Jennifer Villwock, MD: so aroma was really.
Born out of frustration with some of the existing tests.
You know, there's always, you know, in today's health economic climate, there's
always reasons to or to not do things.
And a lot of times, if you wanna be reimbursed and, have,
recoupment of your costs, you need a CPT code that's billable.
And that's something That is still lacking within the realm of olfactory testing.
And you can't really afford to give every patient, a very expensive test, without.
thinking about those financial considerations.
Another area of frustration was when I took a step back and I looked at the
way that a lot of the tests were done, they use, relatively simple chemical
mixtures or compounds to test olfaction.
And that was problematic for me because there have been a lot of really elegant
studies that have shown that the way that your brain recognizes different scents.
Requires all the different aspects that are present in that scent.
And the example that I like to use is the scent of clove.
we just exited the holiday season.
A lot of people were doing a lot of, winter baking making gingerbread and
other things where clove is a predominant.
Component.
And so if you have a strong memory linked to, oh, I walk into grandma's house and
she was making gingerbread, and This is the smell of clove That is very different.
That whole scent, that triggers that memory than just
saying, okay, here's some al.
consciously that might smell like clove, but the way that your brain
responds to that And the way that it lights up on functional MRI and
other type studies is different.
And we wanted to be able to capitalize on that.
so to make our test more affordable and more reflective of real-world
olfaction, we actually use essential oils, and dilutions of those, to
test all faction in our, patient's.
Daniel I. Simon, MD:
So what smells are there in the aroma test?
Jennifer Villwock, MD: Ooh, This is, This is like a quiz.
Can I remember all 14 cents.
So we try to, have a pretty, diverse array of sense, right?
In terms of the categories.
So within the floral category, we have things like rows.
lavender, eucalyptus, rosemary.
we have mints as well, so things like, spearmint, peppermint.
There is also a citrus category, so we have things like ginger,
lemon, and orange, And then we have some of our more aromatics.
Those are the things like cinnamon.
Clove.
And then we also have, the most pungent one.
We keep this one, But when we haven't made our concentrations in like multiple layers
'cause it's just so pungent, it's garlic.
So, that one's almost like a positive control 'cause most people can smell that
even if they can't smell anything else.
Daniel I. Simon, MD:
So how did you discover that diseases.
Alzheimer's dementia after traumatic brain injury.
How did you discover that those were associated with defects and smell?
Was it, did you expect it?
Was it surprising?
how did you get to that link?
Jennifer Villwock, MD: Yeah, I think what was surprising for me, you know, and I,
in no way, discovered or, established any of the decades of literature that we
have on this topic, but to your point from earlier, I think what really surprised
me as I started getting into the realm of all faction was how we have so much
knowledge going back, 10, 20, sometimes even 30 years, depending on what.
Publication you're reading that does consistently link olfactory dysfunction
and deficits to these other really important outcomes that we care about.
And yet it's almost as if we're like, well, we don't have great
methods And we haven't really figured it out, so we're just gonna like.
Ignore it, which to me, that was the really surprising part.
Like I became interested in olfaction because I wanted a better way to monitor
my patient's that had nasal polyps.
You nasal polyps are benign, inflammatory growths in the nose.
but as you can imagine, if you've got basically big water balloons on
the inside of your nose, olfactory stimuli is not gonna get to the
regions where it needs to get to.
And I had patient's in Kansas who lived, 6, 7, 8 hours away.
The way that we check for nasal polyps is you.
Usually we look in the nose with a camera that takes less than one minute.
And so I felt some sort of way about them driving six hours
brief clinic visit and procedure.
Just for me to say, looks great, come back in, three to six months when I knew well.
Olfaction is one of the first things to decrease when your polyps come back.
What if we could monitor them at home?
And that's what started me on this.
But then I think most of us know how it goes.
You type something into PubMed And then 1 million rabbit holes
appear for you to dive into.
And so as I was, pursuing some of these rabbit holes, I really stumbled
across, all of this really strong and compelling literature about olfaction and
how it's linked to cognitive outcomes.
can be used to help differentiate Parkinson's disease from some
other primary movement disorders.
It's something that's impacted by traumatic brain injury.
You know, the most recent rabbit hole that I've gone down is how sensory function
is impacted by hormones and menopause.
And maybe some of the sensory changes that are occurring during menopause
will help explain why women have an increased risk of dementia versus men
when you look at those numbers globally.
So I think there's a lot.
There's Still to explore.
Daniel I. Simon, MD:
So for most, late.
People and, also doctors.
We suddenly got this explosion of interest in olfaction from COVID.
my wife, one day she had COVID, and one day she says, I lost my
sense of, smell and taste and.
That's like everybody knows someone.
then suddenly there was this burst of literature.
So tell us a little bit about that story.
I mean, That is obviously the COVID-19 virus directly injuring olfactory neurons.
I mean, tell us about that story And it's recovery and, and maybe some
of the work that you did in COVID.
Jennifer Villwock, MD: definitely COVID put olfaction on the map That is for sure.
typically we know that different viruses can impact the olfactory
system in different ways.
So pre COVID, I was still seeing patient's in my clinic that had either
idiopathic, meaning we don't know, but assume it was some sort of virus
or, were recovering from a viral upper respiratory tract infection and
they had persistent olfactory loss.
some viruses are known to directly impact the olfactory receptor neurons, and some
of them impact the supporting cells.
So, It seems that, in the case of COVID, it is more, the latter.
but of course if the support cells are not in place, you know, to help
with, energy supply, metabolic waste, distribution, et cetera, you're
going to get injury to that hole.
System.
Most people, who acquired olfactory dysfunction because of COVID-19
have at this point recovered.
However, most is not all.
And so There are still quite a few folks.
when we look at the overall prevalence of longstanding olfactory dysfunction, it's
still in the two to 5% of people, which is a lot when you look at the overall.
global burden of, COVID-19.
And it makes me think about, populations where perhaps they
are just not articulating that they experience this symptom.
You know, I think about kids.
There are some folks who believe that, some children that have.
Picky eating, you know, and, other new aversions might be because their
sense of smell and taste are off.
we just have not really developed an effective way to, at a population health
level screen for olfactory dysfunction.
There are a number of things that we've learned in terms of
supportive treatments, but we still don't have, any clear slam dunks.
Daniel I. Simon, MD:
So just for a sense of understanding, The aroma test and dementia risk.
Are there abnormalities in smell before cognitive decline or are
the abnormalities in smell in parallel with cognitive decline?
In other words, can you use it to predict adverse course, future course,
maybe even to administer drugs that clear amyloid, that kind of thing.
Jennifer Villwock, MD: Yeah, so the answer to your question is yes, it is
a preclinical sign of cognitive decline that's been shown in a number of studies.
My ongoing work right now is.
To better answer the question that you just asked.
right now what we're doing is we are studying folks all
across the cognitive spectrum.
So some of them are cognitively unimpaired, some have mild
cognitive impairment, and some have been diagnosed with Alzheimer's
disease And we wanna know.
Are there specific scents or concentrations of specific scents that are
correlated with these clinical outcomes?
And we also wanna know, are there patterns within those phenotypes, of olfactory
performance that also help us predict other things that are typically pretty
resource intense to figure out otherwise?
So that's like plasma biomarker.
Status for Alzheimer's disease or other markers of, brain and cognitive health,
health, like hippocampal volume on MRI.
The other thing that we're interested in too is understanding how does olfactory
performance predict how you're gonna be doing in a couple of years, right?
Because that's the real value.
But if we can find some of these links and, we have pilot data to
support, what we believe, we're going to find in this study.
The potential public health outcome is huge, right?
Because if we can identify people early, especially now that we're in the era
of amyloid clearing medications, et cetera, you know, I always tell folks
I'm about breakthroughs not bummers.
And so we don't just wanna have a way to diagnose a bummer earlier,
But now if we can say, Hey, your profile predicts this, you.
Probably wanna get more evaluation and assessment so that you can be eligible
for these earlier stage clinical trials, et cetera, that has real potential to
move the whole needle when we think of Alzheimer's disease and related dementias.
Daniel I. Simon, MD:
this might sound kind of funny, but is there something like smell therapy?
Is there a way to get somebody who has a d.
Fact and all faction to be able to sense smells.
Can you train?
what can you do for someone who has deficits in smell?
Jennifer Villwock, MD: There are a couple of options.
The first is exactly what you mentioned in terms of training.
the way that I think about it is if you recall, you know, people that are
real into things like coffee or wine, et cetera, they train their sense of
smell because there's such an intimate relationship between smell and taste.
so we know just from those occupational use.
Cases that yes, we can train our sense of smell to be better in individuals
who have olfactory dysfunction.
What we call that technique is olfactory training or olfactory retraining.
it's very much the same process.
It's typically a panel of odorants where you.
Smell it, and you're consciously in your mind thinking, okay,
this one says it's lemon.
Even if you don't smell anything at all in your brain, you're like,
all right, brain, here it comes.
This is lemon.
And you're consciously reinforcing that component of your perception, and
it always sounds like a little bit.
Funny when I describe it to patient's, but an analogy that seems to work well,
particularly for those who, have a, viral cause of their olfactory loss.
As I tell them, your system literally got.
A virus.
We know that the hardware does continue to regenerate itself in
terms of the olfactory system.
Those nerves are unique that they can recover and they will.
So we just have to have faith that the hardware's going to be there.
So some people will do different oral supplements, et cetera, so
that all those building blocks are.
Present as the system is regenerating.
So while the hardware is regenerating itself, we're also trying to
upgrade the software, right?
You need a system update 'cause something went wrong.
And that's the roll of olfactory training.
Now, that also is not a slam dunk, but it's very non-invasive, It's
not a procedure, it's something that you just do at home.
so for a lot of folks, there's not really anything to lose, by trying this.
and This is one of the things that we have the best data to support for its use.
Daniel I. Simon, MD:
Well, Jennifer, this has been incredibly interesting.
I think that, We have a hole in our training.
We don't get a lot of smell training, in medical school or
even as residents and fellows.
it's so great to be able to hear that not only can we use the eye
as a window on neurologic disease, but we should use smell as well.
So thank you so much for taking the time to speak to us, today.
To learn more about research at University Hospitals, please visit uh hospitals.org.
Forward slash uh, research.
Thank you, Dr.
Vock.